"Like Sharks in the Water" - Treyarch Details Black Ops 7 Zombies and More - Interview

How Zombies and a shared experience has helped shape a new Campaign experience. Also, beware the fog...

Miles Leslie is an old-school dev. He’s been at Treyarch for what the kids these days might refer to as “aeons” and, more importantly, has been involved in every Black Ops effort in the ‘modern’ Call of Duty era. He even worked on World at War, the progenitor CoD entry to the Black Ops game universe. So when he says that Treyarch is “most proud” of what it's achieved with Black Ops 7, you kind of have to listen. We mean, the other entries weren’t slouches, by any measure.

 

“I think why we say that, and again, to your point, it's not that we weren't proud of the other ones. I think why we're most proud of this one, though, is the amount of content that we've been able to polish,” Miles tells us when we ask, in the wake of the series’ successful history, that this one stands out most. “As you saw, there's lots of different ways to play. [So our] vision was how to make a game that had so many different ways to touch how players play. And I feel like this game has more ways for new fans to come in and become Black Ops fans [and] old fans to play different ways as well. 

 

“And the interesting thing is we have the co-op campaigns connected now; that's one of those ideas where you talk about it [in development] and you're, like, ‘man, that would be cool if we could do it’. And so it's always been on the list. And so Black Ops 7 was the right time and we spent the time and resources on it. And it's a hard problem to solve. [So] I think that's why we're proud because we pushed through some of these big hurdles of ‘wouldn't it be cool if we could?’, and we [actually] did it.”

 

Even as we approach launch for the game which, in a kind of normalised reality, doesn’t need much in the way of marketing these days, there’s a refreshing sense of pointed difference for Black Ops 7. In Australia we nominated Min Woo Lee as our “The Replacer” bridging golf and Call of Duty together for the first time and, definitely a partnership likely not on anyone’s pub golf score card for the year, while the above mentioned co-op will also throw an entirely new way to experience a Call of Duty campaign into the mix. And we’ve lamented in the past how long it appears to take punters to even engage the fantastic storytelling of a Call of Duty, so this feels like it will address a couple of things at once.

 

The hope, also, is that co-op will create watercooler moments, despite the linear nature of the game.

Call of Duty: Black Ops 7

Genre: FPS
Developer: Treyarch, Raven and Support Studios
Publisher: Activision
Release Date: November 14, 2025
Classification: MA 15+
Author: Stephen Farrelly
Date: November 13, 2025

“It is very different,” Miles says of playing solo or in a group, given playing solo is *just* you; no AI companions who would normally be in the other co-op sessions, which means there is a unique aspect to play, despite the story and beats playing out the same, regardless. “So it adds an extra element when there're other humans with you that you can strategise [with]. And that was the exciting part because we're playing…  the funny thing is we brought co-op to World at War and we tried it in Black Ops 3, but if you look in between that, Zombies is a co-op storytelling mode also. That's what we do. And so it just made sense for us [to lean into that] and it's better together when you have those moments of gameplay, but also story as well.

“And that was really important for us so that if you're one, two, three or four players, you're still getting the same story. It's the same characters in all the cinematics; you're hearing the same voices no matter what it is. It's really if you just want to immerse yourself. If you and I party up, we can feel like we're part of the squad even more, on top of the unique gameplay opportunity where we can chat, right? ‘Okay, you go to the left and I'll go to the right and then we'll use our gadgets and gizmos to do some fun stuff together’. But it's the same story.”

"It’s also a pointed level of difference that this Zombies is taking things in all new directions..."

Jumping ship to Zombies, which is clearly a genesis point for Black Op 7’s campaign to go all in on co-op, it’s also a pointed level of difference that this Zombies is taking things in all new directions, while maintaining plenty of nods to the past. An important distinction we prodded Miles for from the outset, though, was ‘is the “Ol’ Tessie” transport system akin to the bus in Black Ops 2’s TranZit map or are we free to roam, drive and explore this new interconnected space titled “Ashes of the Damned” as we see fit?’.

“It’s the biggest… it’s fucking huge,” Miles says of the map now, while also confirming that “once you unlock her” Ol’ Tessie ain’t no bus and you’re free to explore the map however you like, though its dense fog is home to horrors and challenges designed to strike fear into the hearts of even the most seasoned of Zombies players.

“It's like sharks in the water,” he adds of the dread -- and enemies -- that will haunt and hunt in equal measure inside the fog. “And so you go into the water (or fog) and they smell you… [this creates a] sense of urgency where we can stay, but we better be fucking geared up and ready for a fight, versus you get to the other POIs and you… you can take it at your own pace -- there's rounds and it's slightly easier in that sense of setting how you want to get through it. Whereas [the fog] is, like, have we upgraded enough? Are we ready? Alright, boys and girls, let's go.”

"Thankfully, that frustration has been addressed in Black Ops 7..."

In terms of the size of Ashes, we also asked Miles for a comparable space to compare, say, the POI 'settlements’ across the map the fog sits in between, and while we floated Liberty Falls as that metric, he wasn’t able to confirm, fully, each’s explorable and plaable space, but confirmed, at least, it’s ball park-ish.

“This is going to sound… each is enough to deliver something new where it doesn't feel small,” he teases. “It feels like there's nooks and crannies, and you get to use the Wonder Vehicle to jump on and go somewhere else. It feels purposeful. And then you go into the fog and you go to the next place and it's like, where the hell am I?”

“Alright boys and girls, let’s go” is a sentiment somewhat lost on this interview and writer, personally, as I’m a bit of a loner when I play. It’s why I always conquer Campaign mode before stepping into MP at all, and will constantly try to beat Zombies on my own, but Black Ops 6’s undead population constantly had other plans for me -- overbearing plans. It’s something that wound up turning me off it for a while, despite loving the challenge. And thankfully, that frustration has been addressed in Black Ops 7.

“It’s a huge topic because we know there's lots of players like you,” Mies says in mine and others’ defense. “Solo players that I almost want to say want to become deeper zombies fans but we're stopping you from doing that because it gets hard. Obviously the game's designed to be hard, but it [also] needs to be fair.

"We're constantly looking, even post-launch, at how players are playing? Where are they dying? Which round? All that sort of sentiment and feedback, we look at it and take it seriously...”

“That’s why the team really looked at all these different modes and… OK, we’ve got Standard, that has to be balanced. Of course, we want it to get harder, but Survival strips it down where it's easier at the start, but then can get hard; that one's an easier ‘dip your toe into the water’ [riff]. And then Directed mode will take you through the story. So I think that is for solo players that might've been intimidated by the normal Standard mode, but we're constantly looking, even post-launch, at how players are playing? Where are they dying? Which round? All that sort of sentiment and feedback, we look at it and take it seriously.”

Our final query comes around time, because a full playthrough of any of the Black Ops 6 Zombies maps to completion can be hours-long. Each is an investment, and that doesn’t take into account early or mid-play deaths where you’re not so disheartened you jump straight back in. This, thankfully, has also been addressed, though the team isn’t so forgiving as to give you your time back, but are at least cognisant that each “toe dip” is a genuine investment.

“That goes to sort of rewarding your time,” he tells us. “[We don’t want you to feel] like it's taking too long or you're being cheated, and so we added in Pause and stuff [because] respecting players' time is huge, especially in Zombies -- we know it can go long.” 

"This year’s entry has had the benefit of player data and behavioural information to make smart decisions around player investment..."

It’s great to know these things are all being looked at and while Black Ops 6 and 7 were actually co-developed roughly around the same time, this year’s entry has had the benefit of player data and behavioural information to make smart decisions around player investment, where and how they play, but to then build around those for both inviting and all-encompassing options and modes, but also exciting new ways to engage those who may be ultra-settled in last year’s effort. In other words, the studios look to new ways to embiggen the experience, from novice to veteran and all in between.

“I think it goes to respecting a player’s time,“ Miles concludes.  “What we actually find is players do kind of [seek] that fresh and new start… and it's a new world, it's a new story, it's new toys and gadgets to get. And so I think for us, our vision [for Black Ops 7] was to just make a game that felt special and different.”

About the author

Written By Stephen Farrelly
Stephen Farrelly is a veteran journalist and editor with more than two decades experience in the worlds of gaming, entertainment, lifestyle and sport. He is a proud pug dad, loves art in all forms (particularly street and tattoo culture), and is the director of Swear Jar Editorial and Media Pty Ltd, this site's owner and publisher. When not dispensing words, he's also dispensing boutique beers as a taproom fixture at Bracket Brewing in Marrickville, NSW...
More from this Author
  • + Updated Red Dead Redemption Set for New Platforms Debut
  • + Keeper Review
  • + Hades II Review

    • explore more across our site

    Fancy another go 'round with the epic open-world Western opus that is Red Dead Redemption and its horror-themed expansion, Undead Nightmare, complete with fresh new bells and whistles? Rockstar has you covered, just head inside for all the details!

    Ahead of launch, we spoke with Treyarch's Miles Leslie -- a veteran designer who's worked on every Black Ops title. Click through to hear what he had to say about Black Ops 7, Zombies and more!

    Double Fine strikes again with another left-field gem that helps continue to never pigeonhole the studio, nor its creatives. Keeper is a stunning side-scrolling(ish) game with big philosophies driving its main arc, bolstered by some of the most stunning visuals you've ever seen. You won't play a game like this this year. Check out our review for more!

    BALL x Pit is as fun as it is unusual in its design, which is seemingly born from adding a bunch of bouncing balls to the popular survival roguelite genre popularized by Vampire Survivors. And really, by nailing the sense of progression with a style that hearkens back to the bullet-hell days of arcade games, while still feeling fresh and new, makes it the sort of game you won't want to put down.

    The myriad GOTYs that will permeate the online games reporting landscape at the end of the year now have at least a handful to pick from, and while it's hard to declare the winer this early yet, we have one absolute contender in locked-in calculations -- Hades II.

    Check out our full review!

    Check out this twisted trailer for the already-pretty-twisted Little Nightmares III to celebrate the game's launch!

    Is VR the best platform for an immersive stealth experience? Eidos-Montreal, Vertigo Games and Maze Theory think so, and might have the perfect vehicle to stake that claim!

    Fancy a fantasy-lite game with some genuine thought to its world-building to quickly trounce through, little effort required? Echoes of the End might be for you. What it lacks in gameplay depth it defintely makes up for in writing and performances and can look stunning...

    Star Wars Genesis collects hundreds of Star Wars mods for Starfield and stitches them together with new content, questlines, and RPG elements that draw inspiration from classic titles like BioWare’s Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic.

    Ever wondered what a more twisted spin on a Disney classic might look like? (And no, we're not talking about some of the ones you can find on that SomethingHub site.) If the answer is "yes, yes I have", then Bye Sweet Carole might just be for you. Click on through to learn why...

    Comment

    Please note, comments need to be approved before they are published.